If you’re a rock fan or AM hit-radio maven, you know the New York City musical institution known as Blondie, co-founded (and still led) by singer Debbie Harry and guitarist Chris Stein, who would become a power couple, musically and romantically. Starting out in the mid ’70s CBGB’s punk scene, Blondie would grow by leaps and bounds to take over the radio with everything from disco (“Heart of Glass”) to rap (“Rapture”) to reggae (“The Tide Is High”) before it came crashing down in the early ’80s.
Stein became seriously ill and through various label/management/band battles, the group dissolved. Harry would go on to a solo career and though she and Stein broke up, they’ve always remained close friends. As for Blondie, it reunited in the late ’90s, even getting a hit with “Maria.” The band is still going strong now, touring and recording, including a new album with an interesting twist.
Harry (who mysteriously appeared with her mouth taped over) and Stein came together for an interview on Wednesday night at the 92nd Street Y with author and Rolling Stone editor Anthony DeCurtis to talk about the new Blondie record and Stein’s upcoming photo book (“Negative: Me, Blondie, and the Advent of Punk”) which chronicles Blondie’s salad days in the ’70s.
Some highlights from the conversation:
ON THE NEW ALBUM “GHOSTS OF DOWNLOAD”
Chris Stein: We’re always working on music. We started after we finished the last album. We’ve been getting our learning curve up with computers — there’s lots of programming involved. We recorded in Woodstock, Lower East Side, Oakland (California), San Fran, Cartagena, Brazil. All these different airwaves around us inspired it.
ON THE ALBUM’S CLUB FEEL
Debbie Harry: It’s definitely a movement kind of record, and I love that about it. That’s what it’s really about — dancing. I love dancing.
CS: There was no concerted effort to put it forward like that, though. I like the state of modern pop music. For the last few years, I’ve been through this modern Latin scene. I picked up listening to La Mega, a really cool radio station. I really like modern electronic Latino scene. It combines a lot of different things like Cumbia, which sounds like Captain Beefheart, it’s really crazy stuff. Always looking for something a little bit obscure.
ON DEBBIE MAINTAINING HER VOICE
DH: Technology has improved (laughs), so I haven’t improved with it. I do practice and do exercises.
CS: She’s had same cassette tape that she warms up with before shows for 20 years now.
DH: My throat is a muscular miracle.
ON INCLUDING A RE-RECORDED GREATEST HITS WITH THE NEW ALBUM PACKAGE
DH: It was great. It was a really intense sort of walk down memory lane. These things would flash in — I would remember this section or that section and what was going on in the studio when we first recorded the songs. It was almost like a film. Some of the vocal and instrumental parts have evolved and become different, but some of those original parts are great even though I never listen to them.
CS: The live stuff has morphed over the years. It was a challenge, not as much as making it in the first place, but redoing and relearning it. We wanted to own the masters, too. It all depends if you’re a fan of oxide (tape), and if it sounds better on tape or on a chip.
DH: Most people do believe that. But we just charged ahead.
ON MEETING ANDY WARHOL AND HIS INFLUENCE ON THE BAND
DH: Yes, it’s all his fault. I’m serious. We had some contact with Andy socially, and it came into play that he would do a portrait, and we went there, and it was fun. Andy’s very easy and very quiet. It was great.
CS: He used a camera, which was crappy, and it was like a shoebox. There was no focus. It was a long plastic box, so he was using a cheap-ass camera and selling the pictures for millions.
ON NEW YORK IN THE ’70S AND HOW IT INSPIRED THE BAND
DH: The feeling was always within us that we had this driven sense, this idea of making this happen and becoming great stars.
CS: I didn’t think of 40 years hence. There was the ’75 summer festival at CBGB’s and suddenly there was lots of attention. It took a while even for the Village Voice to write about it and then Melody Maker did; they were the first English paper that did that. Everything was step by step. The model of what a rock star is was very different back then. Back then, if you were going to get lots of money, it would be for guitars and recording equipment so the model has changed considerably over the years.
ON THE PUNK MOVEMENT
CS: Between Blondie, the Ramones and Talking Heads, there was very little similarity, but we were all feeding off each other and grabbing ideas off of each other.
DH: It was nice that nobody was watching (at first). You could just be a jerk and make mistakes. It was like going to school.
CS: It was also like going to a comedy club and working on your material. Now, they document every fucking thing, and you’ll have a false hive mind where everyone is connected but not really connected.
DH: We’ve been talking about that (hive mind) for a while. That would be a great name for a band.
CS: I’m sure there’s several bands with that name.
ON THE VISUAL SENSE OF THE BAND
DH: There was a bunch of different influences. It was comic books initially. Loving comics and comic art. Then Chris went to England, and we were Anglophiles in a while.
CS: We were boys enamored of the Mod aesthetic.
DH: We wanted the opposite of ’70s white lapels and wanted to go the other way. It was also the cheapest clothes — nobody wanted it except us.
CS: Thrift shops were full of remnants of the ’60s, and that’s what we absorbed, like the scene in the party in “Breakfast At Tiffany’s.”
ON HANDLING AND DEFINING AN IDENTITY AS A WOMEN IN THE PUNK SCENE
DH: I don’t know if I handled it at all. I was just sort of trying to figure out what I was doing and to enjoy it to some degree, and I had Chris’ support and criticism. It was trial and error, really. I had to be stubborn to get out into the world. I had an agenda from the time I was five to be myself and had to hold on to that desperately, and that’s what propelled me.
CS: I remember you saying that you weren’t a victim.
DH: I was sick of women being underdogs in relationships. I felt bad for Billie Holiday and Janis Joplin. I wanted revenge. (laughs)
ON WHAT PUNK WAS ABOUT
CS: I think one of the definitions of the punk aesthetic was DIY. Everyone was just going forward one step at a time.
DH: I think that I’m not uniquely alone about evolving and discovering. It’s just what kids do. Except for the Ramones, who made this immaculate choice and that was them, that was who they were. They found this thing and that was them. There was something in Talking Heads that was like that, and they came from art school. Our thing was morphing and evolving for a long time. The B-52s were like that, too.
ON USING DISCO, REGGAE AND HIP-HOP ALONGSIDE PUNK
CS: Our eclecticism … people we admired were just like that. David Bowie, Rolling Stones were like that. Plus, I really liked all this stuff. The first reggae I heard was in the U.K. right before I met Debbie. It was ’73, and it was a festival at Portobello Road. I always liked R&B, and disco was coming out of that. “Heart of Glass” we thought sounded like Kraftwerk.
DH: My influences were always wide. I had a lot of different tastes, and Chris was very adventurous. We often liked the same thing. It seemed very easy really. It didn’t seem like a struggle.
CS: I didn’t think I was inventing it — I was rehashing it.
ON BLONDIE’S POPULARITY IN EUROPE
DH: It was partially because they had a market for pop music, and it always existed and still does. It’s very strong. Also, we were on a British label, and their machine was so precise, and they knew how to market us from the beginning.
CS: I’ve seen “Lolita” described as “young America seduces old Europe,” and there was something about brash girls that seduces them despite their looser sexual mores. There was still something forward about Debbie they appreciate. In Holland, we had a big following. It was exciting. It was different than being in the States.
ON DOING A MEMOIR
DH: (Chris’) book is a memoir, really. One of these days, I’ll get over being angry and write something
Near the end of the talk, audience questions were also shared with Harry and Stein, including one from your humble scribe.
WHAT WAS STUDIO 54 LIKE?
CS: I was there, but not a lot. They had huge fresh lilies planted in the hall, so they had a mixture of nature and horseshit there. Debbie had a
big party, and I met Truman (Capote).
DH: I went there to see the basement. It’s a big dirty dark place.
ON HOW THEY MET
DH: We met at a show.
CS: I was at the Stilettos first show (Debbie’s pre-Blondie band) and thought Debbie was amazing. Then I joined the band, and I became the first permanent musician.
ON WORKING TOGETHER AND BEING TOGETHER
CS: I thought it was great. It insulated us. We got along well.
DH (to Chris): You’ve got a great sense of humor. We certainly had our moments and disagreements and frustration, but most of the time it was very good.
ON CHRIS GETTING ILL IN THE EARLY ’80S
CS: Nobody knew what was going on. It was hard to diagnose. That was the end of the whole thing (band). I was in Lenox Hill (Hospital) for months.
DH: Everything sort of collapsed at once, the whole business.
CS: I had great visions, I really spaced out.
ON GOING FROM PUNK UNDERGROUND TO MAINSTREAM
DH: We were just driven to do it. No holds barred. Chris always says “anyone who starts a band thinks of themselves as a huge star.” It’s part of the identity, and you forge ahead.
CS: It was very transitional. You look at it from the outside and see these moments but for us, it was very fast. I was also very optimistic and thought everything was going to work out.
ON WHAT THEY APPRECIATE ABOUT EACH OTHER
CS: She’s really great. She’s so easygoing. There’s too much stuff to detail.
DH: We’re two peas in a pod. I can’t believe it. Everything really. I think he’s a very insightful, humorous person, and he is very optimistic. He seems, in spite of his insanity, levelheaded.
ON DRUMMER CLEM BURKE
CS: He’s the ultimate rock star. Fucking guy only lives in music: There’ s no external reality to him. He knows everything about every goddamn band in
the whole world. He’s off the hook. If we could get him on a quiz show, we could really score.
DH: “Ask Clem.” That would be it.
CS: His drumming is very signature. The night Keith Moon died, at the end of our show, Clem threw his snare into the audience, and he was upset that a roadie retrieved it — “It was a sacrifice!”
DH: He carries around a pair of dirty boots that he swears are Keith’s.
CS: Someone could call him mom to see if the size is right.
ON HOW DEBBIE REMAINS SO BEAUTIFUL
DH: I don’t know. Doing music maybe helped me. I try to stay fit. I take care of my self.
CS: You’re a good person, and your soul is reflected in your being. (A massive “Aww!” is heard from the crowd).
IS IT TRUE THAT ABBA WANTED TO PRODUCE YOU IN 1980?
CS: Abba’s fucking awesome. “Dreaming” is basically “Dancing Queen.” It’s a direct cop. There’s not enough (similar) notes to get sued, though.
DH: It’s too bad they were Swedish. I loved the songs and thought they were OK in performance, but that little sort of polka thing that was in there … I feel like it disturbed me.
CS: You’ll never live it down: “Debbie Harry says Abba is polka …”
DH: I sang and danced to the songs, so fuck me.
FOR DEBBIE: ARE YOU A FEMINIST?
DH: Oh, yeah (audience applauds). It’s been a process for a long time. We’re at a more civilized age when women can survive without depending on a guy going out to shoot a bear. We’ve evolved. Having an appreciation of yourself as an individual regardless of your sex is vital.
WILL THE ORIGINAL LINEUP REUNITE?
CS: Actually, there were several original lineups so it’s hard to say.
DH: I think we have done that but may not have been public.
CS: I tried to get Gary (Valentine, bassist), but it didn’t work out.
DH: This (current) version of Blondie has been together much longer that the original one.
CS: I like working with the kids.
WOULD YOU RECORD LIVE IN THE STUDIO?
CS: (2011’s) “Panic of Girls” was done like that, but I like working like this now. Da Vinci used the most modern stuff he could, so if he was around now, he’d be working with Photoshop.
DH: Getting your ideas down that way is really smart and comprehensive — you can lay out all the parts. If you look at what goes on with bands, it’s rare that bands just come up with songs. Someone usually comes in with an idea, and they pick up on it.
CS: I’ve heard of bands going in and piecing things together, but it’s really time consuming.
HOW HAS YOUR SONGWRITING CHANGED OVER THE YEARS?
DH: I supposed everything’s changed over the years. There’s some fundamentals that I stick to. If I get an idea, I’ll scribble it down, and I’ll save these things, and if some music comes along, I’ll use it. It’s usually that the music suggests something. I didn’t write as much for this album, but I’m happy with that — I like the diversity. I worked as an editor and rearranged things.
WERE THERE ANY CBGB’S BANDS THAT YOU THOUGHT WOULD MAKE IT BIG BUT DIDN’T?
CS: The Ramones (crowd applauds). They should be up there with the Beatles and Stones, and I don’t know why. Maybe because they were so weird. They were like godheads. I thought they were totally fucking amazing from the first time I saw them. It was so funky, and they would stop songs and argue, but it was still like paratroopers jumping out of a plane in formation.
DH: They did really, really well in South America. Everyone I thought was gonna do something, did something. There was a high morality rate, though. I wonder what kind of songs would Johnny Thunders (New York Dolls) have written.
WHAT WAS BETTER ABOUT NYC IN THE ’70S?
CS: It was very exciting during the Five Points period … There’s glamorization of that period (in the ’70s), but back then, everyone pissed and moaned about being here, and they all said, “I gotta get out of here!” Then (President Ronald) Reagan screwed it up and handed everything to Wall Street.
DH: The density here now is incredible to me. It’s hard to find a gas station or parking lot. Where are all these people coming from, and why are they coming here?
CS: Being in a band is now the mainstream. How do you have a fringe group if everybody’s in the in group and everyone can become a hipster easier? So how do you stand out?
DH: Our history is about immigration, and these people have created culture. Those are the people that are going to be on the edge, so look out.
WHAT WERE THE REFERENCES AND INFLUENCES FOR “RAPTURE?”
CS: (Rapper) Fab Five Freddie took us to the South Bronx in ’77, and it was mindboggling. Going to a rap event was a big thing, there were close to 1,000 people. We immediately got that this was going on. It seemed like a no brainer to reference that.
DH: To me, it seemed in the essence like folk music: It really had a mind, and it was about people with a point of view and grievances, it was not like traditional. They had all these guys there scratching, too.
CS: It was Grandmaster Flash, the Cold Crush Brothers, Funky Four Plus One. It was super exciting.
WHAT’S NEXT FOR BLONDIE?
CS: Touring and some festivals. Some shows here next year.
DH: I’d like to get some nice footage of the band as it is now. We’re working on a backdrop of video for the show and expanding for our 40 anniversary. And we want to keep playing. Chris enjoys writing. He’d like to do some film scores.
CS: I could see recording longer than just keeping on touring.
DH: I have mixed feelings (about touring). I love being a jerk and jumping around on stage, but I also think “you gotta act your age.” But I would like to do more acting. I started doing “celebrity biography” … we get up and read from other biographies. I do this with a group of comics.
Jason Gross is the social media manager for TheBlot Magazine.
